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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
Considering placing an order for a Framework Laptop 13 Pro
:blobcat_googly_notlikethis@ck.catwithaclari.net:1:blobcat_googly_notlikethis@mskey.nekomimi.party:1
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Fries @fries@solarpunk.moe
5d
@star get a macbook neo instead 🧌
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zoe blahaj -> GPN 2145 ☎️ @commanderred@chaos.social
5d
@fries @star ngl if one already gets a framework 13 pro then MacBook airs are definetley in the price range

And they don't perform worse than my phone ><
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
@fries that'd be a downgrade from the macbook pro 13 i just sold :P
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Fries @fries@solarpunk.moe
5d
@star but you can get it in pink, which is pretty cool.
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Fries @fries@solarpunk.moe
5d
@star what about getting a fancy snapdragon x(2) elite thinkpad. arm laptops are cool.
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
@fries no to dubious linux support
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mateusz6768 @mateusz6768@esp32fedi.cjdgrevival.com
5d
CC: @fries

@star + the fact that they "fake" the boot process by hiding some boot stages before UEFI ever loads and you can't replace the firmware on them at all because the firmware is signed
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mateusz6768 @mateusz6768@esp32fedi.cjdgrevival.com
5d
CC: @star

@fries or maybe a more open rockchip powered laptop/tablet where you can boot a OS without dismantling it (only a SD card needed)
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solo @solonovamax@tech.lgbt
5d
@star why's that?
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
@solonovamax good performance, upgradable and repairable. it would be a laptop that lasts me a long time, and that i can improve further down the line. it's also very pretty
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solo @solonovamax@tech.lgbt
5d
@star I mean, I've heard their build quality is kinda rather subpar

and also the whole stuff that went around fedi sometime back, yk?
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Niko @niko@gts.niko.lgbt
5d
@star @solonovamax good thing they’re repairable because you’ll be spending a lot of money on repairing it

as someone who bought a fw16 and whose partner has a 13 they’re just absolute dog shit build quality that will need to be fixed often
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
5d
@star please do not fall into the same trap that literally all of my friends that own a framework did.

The way we like to describe it, the reason framework is repairable is because things will be breaking a lot randomly for absolutely no reason while running hot as shit.

Sure, this is a laptop that isn't out yet, but this has been pretty consistent with their past releases. Disregarding the fact, of course, that they fund an actual racist, while not giving a penny to projects that are literally on their website, like Krita.
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
5d
@star and before you say it, I'm not bringing up the racism because all other companies are perfect. I'm bringing it up because framework positions themselves as an morally better alternative*, while quadrupling down on supporting this racist.

* after all, they are a big proponent of the right to repair movement, which is fundamentally about the morals of not allowing you to own and repair your devices.
:neocat_agender_peach_heart@ck.catwithaclari.net:1❤️1
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
5d
@star

But regardless of all that, you're paying a pretty hefty price tag for a device that continues to have design defects and common issues that aren't fixed with later revisions. Like the overheating problems, like the terrible fan curves, like the fact that things constantly break from no reason.
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
5d
@star if you're considering to pay such a premium for a device, I would suggest you just look elsewhere.
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
@alexia No one else offers a product like this
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
5d
@star Dell does have a modular laptop iirc
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
@alexia Well, no, I'd be paying for a device which, as you said, "isn't out yet", and is supposed to be a major redesign fixing the flaws that the 13 had, not to speak of the god awful 12
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
5d
@star fair but because the device isn't out yet, you also can't know if they've actually fixed those issues.

For all we know, they could be pulling a Volkswagen testing moment
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
@alexia Yes but then again what's the alternative
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
5d
@star I mean if your is just modularity, MNT is there for you, or dell which IIRC also has a framework-esque modular device

what I am questioning though is whether you...need a modular laptop in the first place. I mean yes it has utility but...is it enough utility to justify the price tag over just getting another high-end laptop that has an ok repairability score? Would a device with good I/O not be enough?
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
@alexia Having the ability to upgrade my laptop in 5 years sounds pretty sweet, I am not going to lie. The Dell one I don't trust. Who knows how long they are keeping that around for. It's also just as expensive, if not more so
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
5d
@star I mean, those upgrades are also locked-in to Framework's ecosystem, so if you buy in, you'll put a huge switching cost on yourself should you ever decide that the device wasn't actually for you, because now a motherboard upgrade that would've been idk, 700€ would become a whole laptop upgrade which will (judging from what ur willing to spend) more like 1500-2000€
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
5d
@star we also haven't seen what Framework does once a chassis is "done", as in, no longer manufactured or supported

like, what happens to the FW13 when the FW13P hits? how long will they provide upgrades for that thing after the Pro releases? just another question in regards to longevity and viability of this upgradable laptop idea
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
5d
@star the reason it works for desktops is because ATX, ITX etc are all standardized, after all
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
@alexia Yes but on Desktop your Mainboard also only is good for like 2-3 CPU generations if you are lucky. After that, you are looking at a RAM+Mainboard+CPU upgrade. That's just computers under capitalism
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
5d
@star I mean even then RAM and PCI-E and all that are standardized interfaces; Yes with revisions that aren't always backwards-compatible but that's still miles ahead of even what Framework is doing, which boils down to either also a full-mainboard swap or standardized but uncommon formats (like their SODIMM replacement which I forgot the name of, or their proprietary upgradable GPU thingy for the FW16)

it's a bunch of novel in-house specifications that I fear will hinder upgradability down the line
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
@alexia LPCAMM2 is just new, but is definitely the way forward for replaceable laptop memory for any manufacturer
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
@alexia It's better than literally any other laptop that exists that is non modular, is for sure
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
5d
@star I mean technically yes but again switching costs
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
@alexia Aren't the switching costs just as high with a regular laptop
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
5d
@star no I mean switching costs from Framework back to literally anyone else

again, should you ever decide you don't want into Framework's ecosystem of hardware components anymore, you'll need to "start from scratch" with either a non-upgradable device or one that's in a different ecosystem entirely (because things aren't standardized)
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
5d
@star with a desktop, if you don't want a particular motherboard or set of RAM or GPU anymore, you can just swap 'em out (within the same generation)

that fancy FW16 GPU won't really work in...any other laptop though, neither will any of framework's modules
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
@alexia Yes but we are talking about Laptops, a Desktop is nice but I can't take that with me in a plane cabin
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
5d
@star I know, I'm just taking desktops as an example of the good that standardization can do, and in turn, illustrate what kind of issues might arise from buying into a closed modular ecosystem like framework's

It's kind of like buying a bunch of Apple devices and they work great together, but because things aren't standardized, the second you want to switch, you have this huge switching cost

framework gives you a modular system that only works within their confines and their specifications. The only open specification that they've made is that one RAM standard. Everything else so far is entirely proprietary and we don't know where they're going to go with it. So the benefits of this modularity and upgradeability might degrade over time or be flipped on their head. Which would then nullify one of the reasons why you want to buy one of these in the first place.
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
@alexia The only thing I am genuinely worried about is build quality. The other stuff are non-arguments to me; "what if Dell uses the intel management engine to permanently fry your own laptop", yes, any company could do this, big companies are inherently soulless because of their profit incentive which is the opposite of having rigid values that you uphold. It's catering to your own needs, to shareholders, to increasing or decreasing a number. This "this can perspectively" happen is true of any for-profit company ever and thus not really a convincing argument for me in this regard. The build quality I have consistently been appalled by, and I would really like to see it improve, for the sake of everyone. But then also, this has also been true of every laptop manufacturer ever; see: Intel MacBooks and their notorious thermal throttling which made them so hot, they were borderline dangerous to use. Or the infamous butterfly keyboard. And now, 7 years later, everyone is hailing the MacBook Neo as a revolutionary device for computing in terms of monetary accessibility

But all of these problems are inherent to a) capitalism and b) in this case, a new manufacturer, bringing two 1st-gen products to market. That's always a gamble, and how they dealt with it has been appalling, but only the same level of appalling (if not slightly better) than any other major manufacturer in existence has also ever been guilty of.
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ルカちゃん @annaaurora@pony.social
5d
@alexia @star would be nice if there was a laptop equivalent of ATX
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ルカちゃん @annaaurora@pony.social
5d
@alexia @star but maybe this wouldn't work because the tight integration laptops are expected to have would force a very particular design which not all vendors would be on board with
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
@alexia Isn't there 3rd party mainboards already, like the ARM one from MetaComputing?
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
5d
@star I think they were made in collaboration with FW? but I'm not 100% sure from memory alone.
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ルカちゃん @annaaurora@pony.social
5d
@alexia @star MNT laptops are fucking chonkers though it is pretty cool that they got a RISC CPUs and expose individual battery cells to users
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
4d
@annaaurora @alexia Yeah MNT laptops are cool but not what I am looking for personally
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Luna / Miika ☭ => GPN24 nb_verified @nyovaya@transfem.social
4d
@star @alexia I mean they could just lie like every other company selling devices because people are dependent on them and will have to buy one either way
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zoe blahaj -> GPN 2145 ☎️ @commanderred@chaos.social
5d
@star but it's framework qwq
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
@commanderred which company isn't evil
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zoe blahaj -> GPN 2145 ☎️ @commanderred@chaos.social
5d
@star true, but also like I have a fw 13 and with all the issues I had with their firmware and their support team (which basically is only able to say "make screenshot of the motherboard" and "send the whole unit in, we'll wipe it and see if it works then")

And yea that all makes me very much not recommend it. Like I use my MacBook air m2 way more often than the framework
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aura @aura@gts.foxsnuggl.es
5d
@star @commanderred tbh the reason i wouldn't buy framework again is that i put up with subpar hardware and value because repairability is a good mission and then they kinda added "fascism is just like someone's opinion" to their mission

but if the value actually checks out for you, shrug
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
@aura @commanderred yes. but read fed.amazonawaws.com/notes/amwj270fw84c3h60
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zoe blahaj -> GPN 2145 ☎️ @commanderred@chaos.social
5d
@star @aura I mean for me it's not just about repairability but also Software Support. I don't like needing to implement the weirdest fixes for stuff. Might be worth looking in the newer Lenovo's again, afaik ifixit gave them a 10/10. Also ig what might be a factor is that framework actively has that problem, and at least in ur toot u used past tense a lot.

(Also sorry if that is a lot like I just wanna say like what my experience with it was but yea meow 🥺)
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zoe blahaj -> GPN 2145 ☎️ @commanderred@chaos.social
5d
@star @aura like, they have a bug where the USB A module sometimes doesn't work in USB 3.2 slots. I was checking and it definitely is a firmware problem as new hardware didn't fix it. But still they insisted on me sending my stuff in that I needed for work back then instead of forwarding it to firmware engineers
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
@commanderred @aura well, i have a thinkpad t14s gen 6, the newest gen with the amd processors (which are very nice), and i have NEVER gotten this thing to sleep or wake from sleep reliably. i have had it for a year, tried two different distros, a myriad of weird tweaks and fixes, and it still just. won't. wake.

it's terrible and makes this thing really annoying to useeeeeeeeeeeeeee
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zoe blahaj -> GPN 2145 ☎️ @commanderred@chaos.social
5d
@star @aura did you read the archwiki tho
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aura @aura@gts.foxsnuggl.es
5d
@star @commanderred oh god, at least it's not just my weird ass gpd win max 2
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aura @aura@gts.foxsnuggl.es
5d
@star @commanderred oh, i'm very aware.

the difference is that if you bought early framework hardware, you got a bad deal, made up for by "underdog going for repairability narrative", it was a bit more like backing a kickstarter than buying a laptop for value, so of course everyone who did this got rightfully pissed when framework take a shitty moral stance for no good reason (like, they're just being shitty enlightened centrists, it's not even money motivated, it'd be easier if it was)
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zoe blahaj -> GPN 2145 ☎️ @commanderred@chaos.social
5d
@aura @star granted, back then Lenovo had just shitty products. HP and dell is stuff u don't wanna buy anyways. And there wasn't really anything left x86_64 wise
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
@commanderred @aura i mean, lenovo still has shitty products; their t14s lineup is absolutely hilarious in terms of build quality. the keyboard is nice, tho
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zoe blahaj -> GPN 2145 ☎️ @commanderred@chaos.social
5d
@star @aura not sure if that is the new one with the 10/10 score. But yea. I had one Lenovo ThinkBook once and it was horrible
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mateusz6768 @mateusz6768@esp32fedi.cjdgrevival.com
5d
CC: @star

@commanderred maybe don't judge a book by its cover
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
considering holding out maybe until next batch to wait and see what people have to say about issues regarding build quality. though it seems compared to the 13, the 13 pro seems to have addressed build quality issues by re-doing the entire thing, so i am at least hopeful

i also currently have a lenovo thinkpad t14s gen6 and the build quality is just awful
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ramponierte computer maus 🔜GPN @kate@treehouse.systems
5d
@star ehw, that's good to know! i don't need a new laptop right now, but the other day i looked at the t14s gen 6 because they are arm and quite repairable (ifixit 9/10). that could have been a nice option, but for the price they're selling the build quality must be very good to be acceptable...
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
4d
@kate Yes, I also really liked that about them, the chipset and specs and repairability are really nice! But the entire thing is made of plastic, the keyboard flexes, the trackpad is god awful (not even a glass one for this price??), the entire thing creaks when flexing, the screen is okay, the speakers are awful... But the keyboard is very nice! But yes, for that price, you usually tend to get much better build quality from other vendors.
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ramponierte computer maus 🔜GPN @kate@treehouse.systems
4d
@star ouch
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pride moth stella⭐ @stellavie@tech.lgbt
5d
@star aren't they doing unibody for this, AKA MBP levels of build quality?
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doskel grounded @doskel@doskel.net
5d
@star i'm tempted to get the 13 pro frame (+battery+input cover+speakers of course) just to replace mine because it's cheaper than buying a new laptop (despite still being fucking expensive) and will hopefully shatter a little less than my existing one

but. no matter what the temptation, i'm going to let my existing chassis fall apart as much as possible before seeing if the pro is any Less Shit
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💙🩷💜Brett🐡🍉🐧 @brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org
5d
CC: @star

the build quality sounds bad, lots of people complaining about the hinges breaking etc
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
@brettm that was mostly the 12 though right? the 13 pro is entirely redone and seems to have adressed a LOT of what was also wrong with the 13. and then, also, the 13 was literally their first ever device, so while that definitely sucks......... i can also kind of see how that happens
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💙🩷💜Brett🐡🍉🐧 @brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org
5d
CC: @star

I am not sure, maybe it was just the earlier ones. tbh I stopped paying that much attention after the support they gave to that white supremist guy and then doubling down on the decision
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alina🐾💖✨🏳️‍⚧️ @alina@girldick.gay
5d
@star despite the fact that they're sponsoring omarchy...?
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
modern slavery, capitalism--, child labor, sexual misconduct @alina

Apple used uyghur forced labor camps for assembly of their devices

Dell was part of the Congo cobalt child labor lawsuit alongside Apple

HPs ex-ceo has been ousted for sexual misconduct, they weaponize printers to die on you so that you have to turn perfectly working hardware into landfill decor

ASUS ran a warranty fraud operation caught by Gamers Nexus in 2024, where it invented out of warranty damage claims on devices brought in for valid warranty repairs

LG was also part of the forced uyghur labor camp thing because they used that for laptop assembly. Also they got criminally convicted for cartel operation

Acer is ALSO part of the uyghur forced labor camp thing and also they stored credit card data unencrypted which then inevitably got stolen

there are no good companies

there are no "non-shit" big companies

every sufficiently large company is soulless

it's just this one lets me repair my laptop
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Fries @fries@solarpunk.moe
5d
re: modern slavery, capitalism--, child labor, sexual misconduct @star @alina warranty fraud seems like the least bad crime out of the lot lol.
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
re: modern slavery, capitalism--, child labor, sexual misconduct @fries @alina well you also cannot buy asus laptops in germany so they are off the table anyway
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pride moth stella⭐ @stellavie@tech.lgbt
5d
re: modern slavery, capitalism--, child labor, sexual misconduct @star @alina @fries you can! mediamarkt has a couple nice zenbooks!! they (asus) appear to be only moderately "evil" i guess and are also taiwanese ^^
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
re: modern slavery, capitalism--, child labor, sexual misconduct @stellavie @alina @fries well fair but i just checked and they also used uyghur forced labor for their own profit
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pride moth stella⭐ @stellavie@tech.lgbt
5d
re: modern slavery, capitalism--, child labor, sexual misconduct @star @alina @fries ugh...
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pride moth stella⭐ @stellavie@tech.lgbt
5d
re: modern slavery, capitalism--, child labor, sexual misconduct @star @alina @fries apple is notably absent from that post. did they take action?
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alina🐾💖✨🏳️‍⚧️ @alina@girldick.gay
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re: modern slavery, capitalism--, child labor, sexual misconduct @star weh :(
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pride moth stella⭐ @stellavie@tech.lgbt
5d
re: modern slavery, capitalism--, child labor, sexual misconduct @star @alina competition in liberal capitalism feels like prisoners dilemma and a race to the bottom pf standards and morale. whoever abuses more (and gets away with it) wins. be a monopoly and you can leech infinitely
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