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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5d
Considering placing an order for a Framework Laptop 13 Pro
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star please do not fall into the same trap that literally all of my friends that own a framework did.

The way we like to describe it, the reason framework is repairable is because things will be breaking a lot randomly for absolutely no reason while running hot as shit.

Sure, this is a laptop that isn't out yet, but this has been pretty consistent with their past releases. Disregarding the fact, of course, that they fund an actual racist, while not giving a penny to projects that are literally on their website, like Krita.
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star and before you say it, I'm not bringing up the racism because all other companies are perfect. I'm bringing it up because framework positions themselves as an morally better alternative*, while quadrupling down on supporting this racist.

* after all, they are a big proponent of the right to repair movement, which is fundamentally about the morals of not allowing you to own and repair your devices.
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star

But regardless of all that, you're paying a pretty hefty price tag for a device that continues to have design defects and common issues that aren't fixed with later revisions. Like the overheating problems, like the terrible fan curves, like the fact that things constantly break from no reason.
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
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@alexia Well, no, I'd be paying for a device which, as you said, "isn't out yet", and is supposed to be a major redesign fixing the flaws that the 13 had, not to speak of the god awful 12
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star fair but because the device isn't out yet, you also can't know if they've actually fixed those issues.

For all we know, they could be pulling a Volkswagen testing moment
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
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@alexia Yes but then again what's the alternative
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star I mean if your is just modularity, MNT is there for you, or dell which IIRC also has a framework-esque modular device

what I am questioning though is whether you...need a modular laptop in the first place. I mean yes it has utility but...is it enough utility to justify the price tag over just getting another high-end laptop that has an ok repairability score? Would a device with good I/O not be enough?
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
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@alexia Having the ability to upgrade my laptop in 5 years sounds pretty sweet, I am not going to lie. The Dell one I don't trust. Who knows how long they are keeping that around for. It's also just as expensive, if not more so
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star I mean, those upgrades are also locked-in to Framework's ecosystem, so if you buy in, you'll put a huge switching cost on yourself should you ever decide that the device wasn't actually for you, because now a motherboard upgrade that would've been idk, 700€ would become a whole laptop upgrade which will (judging from what ur willing to spend) more like 1500-2000€
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star we also haven't seen what Framework does once a chassis is "done", as in, no longer manufactured or supported

like, what happens to the FW13 when the FW13P hits? how long will they provide upgrades for that thing after the Pro releases? just another question in regards to longevity and viability of this upgradable laptop idea
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
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@alexia It's better than literally any other laptop that exists that is non modular, is for sure
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star I mean technically yes but again switching costs
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
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@alexia Aren't the switching costs just as high with a regular laptop
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star no I mean switching costs from Framework back to literally anyone else

again, should you ever decide you don't want into Framework's ecosystem of hardware components anymore, you'll need to "start from scratch" with either a non-upgradable device or one that's in a different ecosystem entirely (because things aren't standardized)
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star with a desktop, if you don't want a particular motherboard or set of RAM or GPU anymore, you can just swap 'em out (within the same generation)

that fancy FW16 GPU won't really work in...any other laptop though, neither will any of framework's modules
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
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@alexia Yes but we are talking about Laptops, a Desktop is nice but I can't take that with me in a plane cabin
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Alexia makko_bnuuy @alexia@starlightnet.work
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@star I know, I'm just taking desktops as an example of the good that standardization can do, and in turn, illustrate what kind of issues might arise from buying into a closed modular ecosystem like framework's

It's kind of like buying a bunch of Apple devices and they work great together, but because things aren't standardized, the second you want to switch, you have this huge switching cost

framework gives you a modular system that only works within their confines and their specifications. The only open specification that they've made is that one RAM standard. Everything else so far is entirely proprietary and we don't know where they're going to go with it. So the benefits of this modularity and upgradeability might degrade over time or be flipped on their head. Which would then nullify one of the reasons why you want to buy one of these in the first place.
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
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@alexia The only thing I am genuinely worried about is build quality. The other stuff are non-arguments to me; "what if Dell uses the intel management engine to permanently fry your own laptop", yes, any company could do this, big companies are inherently soulless because of their profit incentive which is the opposite of having rigid values that you uphold. It's catering to your own needs, to shareholders, to increasing or decreasing a number. This "this can perspectively" happen is true of any for-profit company ever and thus not really a convincing argument for me in this regard. The build quality I have consistently been appalled by, and I would really like to see it improve, for the sake of everyone. But then also, this has also been true of every laptop manufacturer ever; see: Intel MacBooks and their notorious thermal throttling which made them so hot, they were borderline dangerous to use. Or the infamous butterfly keyboard. And now, 7 years later, everyone is hailing the MacBook Neo as a revolutionary device for computing in terms of monetary accessibility

But all of these problems are inherent to a) capitalism and b) in this case, a new manufacturer, bringing two 1st-gen products to market. That's always a gamble, and how they dealt with it has been appalling, but only the same level of appalling (if not slightly better) than any other major manufacturer in existence has also ever been guilty of.
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