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karolherbst 🐧 🦀 @karolherbst@chaos.social
5mo
We can only have true collaboration in FOSS if we stop treating it as a competition (a.k.a. "this project is shit and my project is so much better for those irrelevant technical reasons that are in fact just opinions but they matter really much because I am the best coder on this world and decided so")
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5mo
@karolherbst i don't understand this post but maybe I am not into linux politics enough and this doesn't usually apply in my circles
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karolherbst 🐧 🦀 @karolherbst@chaos.social
5mo
@star it's about tech elitism where people claim that specific projects are trash (and forced upon everybody, if they are also into conspiracies) based on the existence or lack of characteristics they claim are universally good/bad.

Like imagine somebody hates bananas for being a bit slimey, but it's not enough they don't like it, they say it's a terrible fruit and nobody should continue to eat it and it's just forced on everybody through big fruit, because it's clearly bad.
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sarah tonin wlfBlep @SRAZKVT@tech.lgbt
5mo
@karolherbst @star got it, so you're talking about systemd
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karolherbst 🐧 🦀 @karolherbst@chaos.social
5mo
@SRAZKVT @star I'm not talking about anything specifically it happens with all sorts of projects and I'm seeing those kind of discussions where one just opens with "project X is shit, because $arbitrary reason. Can we just do this thing that makes sense in my niche use case but it's terrible in the general case, but I still say it's superior for every use case, because I know things" and then just make it sound like it's a hard fact they talk about where it's "simply" an opinion.
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karolherbst 🐧 🦀 @karolherbst@chaos.social
5mo
@SRAZKVT @star anyway, point is, this sort of tech elitism needs to stop.

Like we can choose to collaborate on projects instead of making up some fake war just because somebody doesn't like the color.

If you want to create a competition, sure go ahead, I think that's great. But badmouthing the think you don't like based on arbitrary reasons is going too far.
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sarah tonin wlfBlep @SRAZKVT@tech.lgbt
5mo
@karolherbst @star a lot of those ive seen aren't arbitrary reasons, but actual bad design decisions that gets shoved aside as unimportant. but maybe we see different things
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karolherbst 🐧 🦀 @karolherbst@chaos.social
5mo
@SRAZKVT @star "bad design" is also arbitrary to be honest.

Like who decide what's bad design? It's all made up. Not to say it's not real, or there isn't experience to know what works or what not.

But I think we treat those "technical reasons" too much of a hard facts where it's "simply" just opinions on what worked best in your own experience, but that shouldn't mean we should treat our own experience as universal laws of programming.
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karolherbst 🐧 🦀 @karolherbst@chaos.social
5mo
@SRAZKVT @star or maybe to put it into different words, we should treat programming more like art, where everybody has their own style and techniques due to experience, but we shouldn't just go around and tell others to do the thing we are doing, just because it worked out for us or because we think it creates good results.

Like sure, you can have opinions on those things, but it goes too far to start random wars and complain why everybody use the obviously sucking solution.
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sarah tonin wlfBlep @SRAZKVT@tech.lgbt
5mo
@karolherbst @star but software is made to be used, not just looked at, some design decisions will just hurt practicality, and those who pay for it at the end is end users
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karolherbst 🐧 🦀 @karolherbst@chaos.social
5mo
@SRAZKVT @star sure. But here is the thing, we figure out what's bad not by declaring it violates technical reasons, but because we make end user studies and they tell us what's bad and what's good.
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sarah tonin wlfBlep @SRAZKVT@tech.lgbt
5mo
@karolherbst @star but end users don't always know about what's best for internals, those are only really useful for ux. but bad internals can still hurt users, for example, complex data formats would hurt reimplementations, and shall the original turn bad in some way, that's just going to hurt users
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karolherbst 🐧 🦀 @karolherbst@chaos.social
5mo
@SRAZKVT @star well sure, but we don't know that until we get to it.

And we can always collectively change things if we decided to do it. Yeah, sometimes it's more work than it has to be, but often you have to do the bad thing first to learn why it's bad and which mistakes to not repeat.

We can't know those things prior trying it out.

And complexity is often necessary and a result of experience with the problem space understanding of all the pitfalls and niche use cases.
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flori_ava_star:~cursor_blinking made-with-estrogen verifiedlesbian @star@amazonawaws.com
5mo
@karolherbst @SRAZKVT dont_at_me dont_at_me celeste_hearts_trans
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mirabilos @mirabilos@toot.mirbsd.org
5mo
@karolherbst @star it’s not like every food recipe suddenly got a dependency on bananas and you have to reorganise all your kitchen shelves because the banana packages don’t recognise the difference between the small and the large bin
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